asakiyume: created by the ninja girl (Default)
[personal profile] asakiyume
Fan Chengda (1126-1193), a government official of the Chinese Song dynasty, made observations of the people on Song China's southern frontiers. They're recorded in Treatises of the Supervisor and Guardian of the Cinnamon Sea, which [livejournal.com profile] wakanomori happens to have borrowed a copy of.

Fan's notes are fascinating:


As for the pearls from the oysters in the Hepu Pool, only the Dan [people] are able to submerge themselves in water and find them. The boatmen tie a rope to the diver's waist. When he shakes the rope, he is then pulled up to the surface. Beforehand they boil a fur cloak until it is extremely hot and quickly cover the diver with it when he emerges from the water. Otherwise, he would shiver to death from the cold. Sometimes divers encounter huge fish, dragons, alligators, or various other strange sea creatures. If a diver comes in contact with a fin, it is likely that his stomach will be ripped open and his limbs snapped off. When observers see a single trail of blood floating on the surface, they know a Dan diver has died.
--Fan Chengda (James M. Hargett, trans.), Treatises of the Supervisor and Guardian of the Cinnamon Sea (Seattle and London: University of Washington Press, 2010), 222-223.



The Ziqi people ... are especially violent and treacherous, and love to make a profit. They sell horses at the Mount Heng Stockade. At the very slightest provocation, they will immediately draw their knives on others. Once some of them were killed and wounded. The Yong Administration [then] killed several Man in order to make recompense, and then the matter was settled. Today its king is called Asi. He assumed the throne three years after he was born. His minister Axie held power of the state and was good at comforting its masses ... When Asi was seventeen, Axie returned the reigns of government to him. Asi and the entire state still obey Axie. (189)



The man people all wear their hair bundled like a mallet, go barefoot, and stick silver, copper, and pewter hairpins [in their hair buns]. Married women add on copper rings and ear pendants that hand down to their shoulders. When girls reach the age of fifteen [marriageable age], they immediately have their cheeks tattooed with intricate floral patterns. These are referred to as "embroidered faces." After the girl is tattooed, relatives and guests gather for a joint celebration. (213)


Tune in next post for more ethnography, from a more recent era.

Date: 2012-03-25 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
Fascinating stuff!

Sort of related, today I chanced on discoveries of female scholars delving into the richness of medieval female monastic writings. Apparently women had complicated, rich publishing lives (though circulating in manuscript) because of course men controlled print. Made me think of fanfiction, a vast world organized primarily by women.

Date: 2012-03-25 03:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
Medieval...print? What country/century?

Date: 2012-03-25 03:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
I should not have said print. I am conflating several facts. Books written, bound, copied, distributed primarily by men before the printing press, and print after. Women's work was passed from hand to hand, apparently. Some thousands of these manuscripts have survived, but no one ever thought to translate them until recently, and they have proved to be rich in observations about medieval life, by the nuns who were on the ground, to to speak, in what social services existed. A great deal of these writings are of course ecclesiastical in nature, but not all.

Date: 2012-03-25 03:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
Ah, codices vs. leaves. Awesome! I still want to know where/when--let me SWAG Germany, since I've never believed that Hildegard was anomalous. Or perhaps the Low Countries...the beguines had to come from somewhere.

Date: 2012-03-25 04:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
This article (I wish I had bookmarked it!) was talking about the enormous number of beguines, and how nobody had thought to research them. They were not only from the Low Countries but France and all over Germany and Austria.

Date: 2012-03-25 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
France, really? (I'm poking at this because I'm a French medievalist by training.) If they were in Lille/le Hainault, it was still very strongly Flanders in that period--IMO instead of Belgium, they should have split it along linguistic lines, half to the Netherlands and half to France. But if they were in Paris and points south...that would indeed be a revelation to me.

Date: 2012-03-25 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
From what I gathered, it was along that line that borders French and German territory--Belgium and down. (It was a reference I stumbled on yesterday, seemed full of primary sources, but I was so stressed for time, and was actually researching convent organization, so I ended up not saving it. Idiot, idiot, idiot me!)

Date: 2012-03-25 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
I'd buy that range. Paris would be way too far south (and not enough of a backwater to let the beguines do their thing, either).

Date: 2012-03-25 01:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
Yes--definitely north, but not confined to German speaking, was the impression I got. Well into Belgium territory, but as far south as Vienna.

Date: 2012-03-25 01:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
WOOT! That's way bigger than I thought. No wonder the Church wanted to suppress them.

Date: 2012-03-25 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
I wish I were forty years younger. The whole beguine movement is fascinating--safe space for women to live in a man's world, intellectual stimulation, organized around letters . . .

Date: 2012-03-25 01:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
Yeah, I've always thought that if I got Connie Willised into the past, I could take refuge there...my non-reading hobbies are all textile-based. ;-)

Date: 2012-03-25 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
(what does "SWAG Germany" mean?)

Date: 2012-03-25 12:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
Scientific(ally) Wild-Ass Guess.

Date: 2012-03-25 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wuweibaby.livejournal.com
I haven't heard that explanation in years. :D

Date: 2012-03-25 01:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joycemocha.livejournal.com
There were others such as Catherine of Siena. I've wanted to take some time to investigate the phenomenon of the holy virgins, because it clearly wasn't that unusual for dedicated women such as Catherine to get involved with political negotiations.

Date: 2012-03-25 01:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] txanne.livejournal.com
True, but, again with the "she's a saint! only saints do this!" and I don't buy it. I think the difference was of degree, not kind.

Date: 2012-03-25 11:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Do you have a good book to recommend--one with lots of excerpts?

Or, alternatively, do you feel like posting some of the excerpts? I'm intrigued!

Date: 2012-03-25 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
I stumbled on it researching other things yesterday--I wish I'd saved the reference!

Date: 2012-03-25 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
That is awesome! It kind of reminds me of the business about fan (in the sense of the thing you use to cool yourself off, not ardent admirer) writing in China--you know, brought to popular attention by the novel Snow Flower and the Secret Fan (http://www.lisasee.com/snowflower.htm)--but of course monastic writing would be even less constrained.

Shadow publishing and shadow media are as fascinating as shadow economies--they're forms of resistance to authority that I can really identify with.

Date: 2012-03-25 12:44 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-25 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avalonestel.livejournal.com
I've been wanting to read that book - is it good?

Date: 2012-03-25 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
I liked elements of it very much indeed. There are two girls, the narrator and her friend. The friend is marvelous; I loved her. The narrator is much more conventional; she's harder to love, especially at certain times. I think I kind of wished that the author had balanced out the two a little more. I think she probably didn't intend for her narrator to come off so small-minded as she did for me (and the problem may be with me as a reader); I think she was just trying to represent a very ordinary woman of the time. But still, I wish that the narrator character could have been a little more perceptive and daring in her thoughts. I did love the best friend, though. And the story was very vivid!

I'd say, I guess, that it's definitely worth reading, even with its flaws (or, more accurately, even in spite of there being things about it that I happened not to like).

Date: 2012-03-25 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avalonestel.livejournal.com
Then I'll add it to my (extremely long) to-read list!

Date: 2012-03-25 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] osprey-archer.livejournal.com
That looks like a fascinating book! I must read it.

Date: 2012-03-27 04:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
I'll be interested in what you think!

Date: 2012-03-25 06:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avalonestel.livejournal.com
That is fascinating. I would love to read into that more one day. <3

Date: 2012-03-25 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khiemtran.livejournal.com
Oh, I need that book! I have a story set in about that area, although in a Bronze Age timeframe.

I had an interesting conversation about the translation of "Cinnamon Sea" over dinner tonight. I had never heard the region called that before, although I had thought Guilin was "cassia/cinnamon forest". Apparently it actually comes from an expression meaning "Cassia trees as though a forest".

Date: 2012-03-25 11:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
I love those sorts of epithets for regions or countries.

More generally, what I love about this book--apart from all the interesting particulars--is that it's scholarship and a power dynamic that has absolutely nothing to do with Europe at all.

Your story set in this area--is it short, or is it a novel?

Date: 2012-03-25 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khiemtran.livejournal.com
Most likely a novel. I have an incomplete draft that I've decided to abandon, but I've just had an idea recently of how I might give the story better bones.

Date: 2012-03-25 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Excellent. Good luck with it. I'd like to read a story set there, and in that time!

Date: 2012-03-25 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wuweibaby.livejournal.com
off the top of my head I believe that was around the time of Mu-Ch'i :)

Date: 2012-03-25 11:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Hee--your comment prompted me to look for his dates, and it looks like he's ever so slightly after this guy (Mu Ch'i's dates being given as 1200-1270, whereas Fan died in 1193--but yeah, both of them living during the Southern Song.)

Looking him up showed me some of his paintings, and I realized I'd seen some of them before. I love this one, (http://nidrayoga.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/six-persimmons-2.jpg) and I loved this image (http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/127/e0a91c23417140f29262f270b6e0329e/l.jpg) of someone getting it as a tattoo.
Edited Date: 2012-03-25 11:49 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-03-25 01:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wuweibaby.livejournal.com
Yes, I've seen those, and the one of the girl getting the tattoo *almost* decided me to get one, myself. Though, not on my inner forearm. ;)

Date: 2012-03-25 01:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
:D

Belly-button nectar! A hummingbird's favorite!

Date: 2012-03-25 06:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avalonestel.livejournal.com
Those are so cool. I love anthropological/sociological studies. This is also interestingly relevant because I have to write an ethnographic study of my family for my poli sci class this week. :3

Date: 2012-03-25 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Neat! I'd like to read what you write, if you feel like sharing.

Date: 2012-03-25 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avalonestel.livejournal.com
Sure! It's going to be weird to write, because we have completely disassociate ourselves from the group and talk about things from a detached position - I was thinking about how strange it will be to talk about our chore schedule as a "ritual". XD

Date: 2012-03-25 10:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tltrent.livejournal.com
I wrote a short story called "The Pearl Thief" re: that very thing in the Song Dynasty, only set in Tolo Harbor (aka Tolo Pool) in Hong Kong. Still one of my faves, though I've yet to find a market for it.

Glad more people are discovering all these amazing things.

Date: 2012-03-25 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Excellent!! I hope it does find a market.

Date: 2012-03-26 07:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khiemtran.livejournal.com
Hmm. Sounds interesting! Hope it finds a home...

Date: 2012-03-26 08:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deponti.livejournal.com
I love the way you range across the world and show us interesting things and interesting people...

Date: 2012-03-27 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Thank you Deponti--I just post what catches my eye/mind/fancy, and I'm always glad when others are interested too.

Date: 2012-03-27 02:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shadownephilim.livejournal.com
Really fascinating stuff! I wish I knew more Chinese history. Any books you'd particularly recommend? The texts I'd read in college tended to be very dry.

Date: 2012-03-27 03:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com
Sadly, I *don't* really have any recommendations--I only came across this because my husband showed it to me. I must say, though, that this is excellent, so perhaps this would be a place to start (though I guess it might seem a little unrooted without some kind of historical context).

Profile

asakiyume: created by the ninja girl (Default)
asakiyume

May 2025

S M T W T F S
    123
4567 8910
11 121314151617
1819202122 23 24
25262728 293031

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jun. 1st, 2025 02:35 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios
OSZAR »